Tested: Black 4.0, the "blackest black" is a lot blacker. 0f1012 vs. 272928 (2024)

I was going to ask if you could plausibly get R, G, and B components that were all numerically greater from a sample object that physically reflects less light of each color, using a real camera sensor and real firmware. It seemed to me that the comparison would at least be directionally correct, at least if the effect is in the same direction for every light frequency, even if it's meaningless in terms of any absolute scale.

Then I remembered that a friend told me just today that cameras have gotten so smart about color correction that they may automatically correct an unusual scene (like a sky illuminated weirdly by wildfire smoke) to something more familiar and expected.

So, maybe if a current smart camera thought that one of the objects was a specific kind of thing that "shouldn't" be a particular color, it could just totally replace the color with one it thought was more plausible!

The absolute values are meaningless but the relative retain some information.

Even if they are not really well defined, cf from op :

> Compared it my blackest matte black paint (left), black paper, black 4.0 (middle) and sharpie (right)

Ever since Vanta Black I've been super curious about this stuff. I bought the new Black 4.0 and was blown away. Compared it my blackest matte black paint (left), black paper, black 4.0 (middle) and sharpie (right). The black paint looks grey in comparison! If you need something very black this is the real deal.

However, it is NOT at ALL like they show in pictures where things just turn into a black hole in space. To get those photos they need very specific lighting. In normal light it doesn't look like anying special. Only in the right low to medium light does it give the effect.

https://culturehustle.com/products/black-4-0

Black 3.0 can absorb up to 99.0% of observable light.

Musou - 99.4%

Vantablack’s S-Vis spray - 99.8%

Black 4.0 - 99.95%.

Vantablack - 99.965%

Looking at it the other way, Black 4.0 reflects 0.05% of the light, and Vantablack 0.035%. So Black 4.0 reflects about 40% more light. The difference is not that small.

On the other hand, Vantablack is highly toxic (similar to asbestos), while Black 4.0 should be quite a lot safer.

No. These numbers are measured perpendicular.

Vanta Black has low total hemispherical reflectance below 1% from all angles, others don't.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anish_Kapoor#Vantablack_contro...

It's a reaction to Anish Kapoor's exclusive licensing of Vantablack, regarded as abusive in the art world.

It's easy to make black material that is very black measured perpendicular. Low total hemispherical reflectance is what makes Vanta Black different. You don't see it in other paints like Black 4.0.

Possible experiment: If you could spray very thin layer of Black 4.0 into a black velvet or one of those nanofiber cloths (so thin that it's not covering the texture) you might improve total hemispherical reflectance.

I will do this tomorrow! I'll water it down and use my spray gun. :)

Genius! The poor man's vanta black!

James, from The Action Lab https://youtu.be/JoLEIiza9Bc

>*Note: By adding this product to your cart you confirm that you are not Anish Kapoor, you are in no way affiliated to Anish Kapoor, you are not purchasing this item on behalf of Anish Kapoor or an associate of Anish Kapoor. To the best of your knowledge, information and belief this material will not make it's way into the hands of Anish Kapoor.

Huh?

"It all started when Kapoor landed the exclusive rights to use the pigment Vantablack, billed as the world’s darkest pigment and said to absorb 99.96 percent of light."

* https://news.artnet.com/art-world/artist-bans-anish-kapoor-g...

Hahaha IIUC Anish Kapoor, a British spectacle-based celebrity pop artist, did some silly bullsh*t where he arranged an exclusive contract for purchase of one of one of these blackest-ever paints (might have been Vanta?) so that the only way you could experience it was by visiting his exhibitions.

I guess the person making this new paint thought this was, well, bullsh*t, so this is a response to that :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anish_Kapoor#Vantablack_contro...

How does black 4.0 compare to Musou black?

Musou black was far more black than black 3.0 about a year ago. It wasn’t even close.

Black 3.0 can absorb up to 99.0% of observable light.

Musou - 99.4%

Vantablack’s S-Vis spray - 99.8%

Black 4.0 - 99.95%.

Vantablack - 99.965%

Silly question; understanding these are meant to be artistic paints, how durable are they?

Would it be even remotely feasible, for example, to paint the ThinkPad shell with it? I cannot be the only one who salivates at the concept :-)

Have you tried musou black?

I have tried many of these and smoothness/blackness vary a great deal.

Although lately I have been making YinMn blue mostly…

Always reminds me of that ship at the The Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

Would be interesting to see car painted with this sort of paint. Or sufficiently large object. Not that it wouldn't get too hot to be usable...

BMW produced a single of unit of Vantablack X6: https://www.bmw.com/en/design/the-bmw-X6-vantablack-car.html (absorbs 99,965% of visible light).

It's super cool, but maybe not a great idea for safety? Like from some angles you might literally not be able to see it at night, even under streetlights or when illuminated by another car's headlights.

And also from some angles it might totally mess up depth perception, kind of like dazzle camouflage, so other drivers might not be able to avoid it as well as they could avoid a car painted in a color that gave better depth cues.

Maybe in a hypothetical future where you don't need human beings to be able to see and predict cars' position with their eyes? :-)

I'm guessing the paint is very fragile, and it wouldn't survive any wear and tear.

> This show car is destined to remain a one-off because of the enormous difficulty involved in making Vantablack paint suitably durable for everyday automotive use. The car paint needed for the world’s blackest black would also be extremely expensive, not to mention questionable in terms of road safety due to its level on the absorption spectrum.

It looks cool, but if you wanted to design a car that causes accidents, this would be pretty effective way of doing so.

It would also probably melt the interior in summer.

It's pretty cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll27OkWuE1g&t=464s

> Not that it wouldn't get too hot to be usable...

It wouldn't actually, unless its infra-red emissivity was much lower than its visible light behavior. (which is why bright metallic surface become so hot in the sun: they absorb little visible light radiation but emit even less infra-red)

I've wondered about this for repainting my bike frame.

I wonder, what it would look like after the first time it got dirty and how hard it would be to clean?

Would a clear coat over the top negate the effect enough that it wouldn't be worth it?

A clear coat on top of a superblack paint would probably make it look like a black mirror, or a computer screen that is turned off. You definitely won't get the "black hole" effect.

That's, by the way, how Ventablack and Black 4.0 are different. Black 4.0 is really black when looked straight on, but looked at an angle, it will start reflecting light (Fresnel effect), it is apparent on the submitted picture as you can clearly see the paintbrush marks. Ventablack is supposed to be much blacker at grazing angles. That's without a clear coat of course.

to be honest the car with this black is unreal

https://www.tiktok.com/@dipyourcar.com/video/729847300687400...

~"Sensitive optics"

A list of examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vantablack#Applications

yeah I'd imagine it's similar.

In my family we took a piece of christmas decoration one year and painted it in Black (v3) and it was eerie. It was just hanging there among all the other glowing/shiny stuff but it was impossible to really make out its contours or even be sure it's really there. :D

Yup. The research group I work with builds a lot of custom camera parts (mostly 3D printed) for different projects, and we keep a bottle of Black 3.0 around to coat internal surfaces. We'll pick up some 4.0 shortly.

It's a quick and easy way to guarantee light-tightness and kill internal reflections.

I could add things like car dashboards to the list, to avoid annoying reflections.

And also for better "Pepper's ghosts". Which is based the same effect that makes you see your car dashboard reflected in the windshield.

Heat radiates as IR and other such, even without air.

Fun fact, black both absorbs and radiates heat faster.

Only if it's also "black" in the IR spectrum.

In fact, an object that is completely reflective in the IR spectrum, but black in the visible spectrum would get really hot really easily.

I think you want them to show, just not too bright.

Otherwise you get stars mysteriously disappearing.

Home theaters using projectors is the use-case for me.

But I stick with triple black velvet which seems to be even blacker than these paints due to the 3d texture to it being able to trap and absorb more light.