MuskieFIRST | Muskie Growth Rate » General Discussion ? (2024)

Message Subject: Muskie Growth Rateagrimm

Posted 11/7/2007 1:41 PM (#283449) Subject: Muskie Growth Rate

Posts: 427

Location: Wausau

What is the average growth rate for a WI musky in these two lakes.
1. 500 acre 50-60 feet deep clear lake with cisco, walleye, panfish/perch
2. 500 acre 20-25 feet deep stained lake with sucker, walleye, panfish/perch
Without unforseen complications - how long can a musky live?

I'm sure more information is needed to provide an overly accurate answer, but for quick lake research, just wondering the average growth rate and life expectancy.

TTurn

Posted 11/8/2007 5:07 PM (#283738 - in reply to #283449) Subject: RE: Muskie Growth Rate

Posts: 91

I have a guide book written by Dave Strebig and his shows males and females being close in size until they are about 5 years old and around 30" long. After that.
Male Female
6yrs 31 33
7 32 35
8 34 37
9 35 39
10 36 42
11 37 45

He claims there are several records of fish living 18 and 19 yrs the world record being 30 yrs as determined by vertibrae and scales.

tcbetka

Posted 11/8/2007 5:31 PM (#283742 - in reply to #283738) Subject: RE: Muskie Growth Rate

Location: Green Bay, WI

Well, PointerPride102's 50" fish was 19.6" when stocked in September 1996. It was caught 11/4/07, so that's just over 30" growth in just over 11 years. Not too shabby when compared to the numbers mentioned by TTurn.

I guess unlimited Shad & Perch forage really does make a musky grow big and strong!

TB

Magruter

Posted 11/8/2007 5:50 PM (#283745 - in reply to #283449) Subject: Re: Muskie Growth Rate

Posts: 1316

Location: Madison, WI

how long does it take a muskie to get to 19.6"?
Very impressive that a fish can live up 30 yrs! tfootstalker

Posted 11/8/2007 6:01 PM (#283748 - in reply to #283449) Subject: RE: Muskie Growth Rate

Posts: 299

Location: Nowheresville, MN

In an ideal situation (no harvest of any species in the system)

1. grow slow-live long-get bigger
2. grow fast-die young.

Pointerpride102

Posted 11/8/2007 6:03 PM (#283749 - in reply to #283748) Subject: Re: Muskie Growth Rate

Posts: 16632

Location: The desert

Magruter, that fish was stocked as a yearling at 19.6 inches. jclymer

Posted 11/8/2007 6:03 PM (#283750 - in reply to #283745) Subject: Re: Muskie Growth Rate

Maybe if more people understood that fish can live 30 years +, more would understand the importance of returning 25 year old, 50 pound fish to the water so that we can see the true potential of a fishery... sworrall

Posted 11/8/2007 9:06 PM (#283777 - in reply to #283449) Subject: Re: Muskie Growth Rate

Posts: 32877

See Also

Musky Vs. Northern PikeHOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO GROW A 50" MUSKIE? - Sporting Journal RadioMuskellunge: How to Identify — Koaw NatureMuskie Fishing Information

Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin

I'll check with my son Keith, he can find out from the biologists in Woodruff or Rhinelander when he goes in to work next week.

An interesting side bar...the Muskies in Cave run, according to the biologist there, live a little more than 10 years. According to him, the fish there are completely dependent on the shad to do well.

I remember hearing that the Wisconsin fish here in the north central portion of the state can live to mid 20's, but I'll check to be sure.

MRoberts

Posted 11/8/2007 9:33 PM (#283780 - in reply to #283777) Subject: Re: Muskie Growth Rate

Posts: 714

Location: Rhinelander, WI

I'll try and post a graph that shows the two northern basins and the state wide average. To get specific data like you want you would need to find two lakes that fit that description and compare them. I am sure they are out there someplace.

Nail A Pig!

Mike

Attachments
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Musky length-age.jpg (26KB - 1308 downloads)

Bytor

Posted 11/8/2007 10:16 PM (#283786 - in reply to #283780) Subject: Re: Muskie Growth Rate

Location: The Yahara Chain

The geographic location has a lot to do with how fast they grow and how long they live. Then each given lake has it's own maximum growth potential.

Our fish here in southern Wisconsin live for about 17 years but they grow faster than the fish in Northern Wisconsin. The female fish in Monona and Waubesa get to about 45" in ten years. Very few fish ever get to 45" in Wingra.

tcbetka

Posted 11/9/2007 4:37 AM (#283796 - in reply to #283449) Subject: RE: Muskie Growth Rate

Location: Green Bay, WI

Interesting graph Mike...

While one fish does not represent the entire fishery, Mike Bolinski's 50" fish (13yo) seems to exceed the statewide average by about 6". I will have to speak with one of our DNR guys over here, but I wonder if the GB fish are considered more of the "fast growers/short livers" or what? It would have been very nice to have known the age of Ryan Dempsey's 56" fish caught back in April 2005.

I have been told that the first fish were stocked in the system in 1988/89 (as yearlings, I presume), but I know there were some fish in the system before that. In fact Becker's "Fishes of Wisconsin" reports that there were fish throughout the Bay, and down the east shore of Lake Michigan, back as early as 1935. Certainly the numbers of these fish increased dramatically since the stocking started, but nonetheless, Dempsey's fish may not have been a stocked fish. Obviously though, it could have been one of the fish from the first year-class, stocked with that first group in 1989.

Here's an interesting abstract, but I cannot get the article at this time:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/wk1288052t63k000/

Although not a scientific paper, this one is available for free:

http://www.muskellungeclubwi.org/Muskie%20Documents/WisconsinMuskel...

If nothing else, the second one give a nice bibliography as a starting point for future study.

TB

Will Schultz

Posted 11/9/2007 7:38 AM (#283804 - in reply to #283449) Subject: RE: Muskie Growth Rate

Location: Grand Rapids, MI

What we've seen here in Michigan is that the lake type doesn't matter as much as the strain of muskellunge. We've stocked numbers of two difference strains here in Michigan, on the linland lakes in the last ten years. One strain outgrows the other significantly, they nearly grow at the speed of a hybrid.

We don't have much data on the GLS because we're not stocking those at this time so GB has all the data. Concerning the GB fishery, that has mixed strains as well. Some of the original eggs came from inland (landlocked) Great Lakes fish and the other eggs came from St Clair. According to the cleithrum project (Casselman/Crossman) the St Clair strain is a faster growing strain.

Edited by Will Schultz 11/9/2007 7:40 AM

sworrall

Posted 11/9/2007 8:22 AM (#283809 - in reply to #283449) Subject: Re: Muskie Growth Rate

Posts: 32877

Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin

I remember some work done on Pelican lake fish a few years ago that indicated a 49/50 there was about 13/14 years old. There was also a year class of stocked fish fin-clipped that was easy to track, and those fish followed about that same growth rate if I remember correctly.

I'm betting the fish Cowboyhannah got a couple weekends ago was about the same age. I'm having Keith look at some of the survey records there when he goes back to work; that fish also was fin clipped.

tcbetka

Posted 11/9/2007 8:30 AM (#283811 - in reply to #283804) Subject: RE: Muskie Growth Rate

Location: Green Bay, WI

Will, great stuff. Could you by chance point me to some literature that elaborates on what you have posted about, and maybe on the performance of those strains? I recently inherited the job of Research Director for the Titletown MI chapter here in Green Bay, so I am quite interested in that data.

If you are willing to speak via phone, please PM me a contact number and the best time to call on my nickel.

Thanks in advance.

Tom Betka

steve horton

Posted 11/9/2007 8:31 AM (#283812 - in reply to #283804) Subject: RE: Muskie Growth Rate

Posts: 4

If Dempsey's fish was not a stocked fish it would not suprise me. Muskies like to hang with muskies, in my findings they are very social. If not a stocker, Dempsey's fish could have strayed from anywhere in the Great Lakes. While not likely, it is a possibility. In June of 1994 a 48", 33 lb spotted fish was taken from Ogontz Bay, Big Bay de Noc. Much too big to be of any of the Green Bay stocked fish. A stray? Without a doubt. But, historically muskies have been incidental catches in Green Bay and the area since recorded Great Lakes history began. Before the stocking efforts in the bay came to be with the early wisconsin strain plants and then the spotties, there were barred fish washing down over the spill way and then into the bay in Menominee every year. There are still barred fish being caught in the bay today. This is from evidence and personal accounts that I have gathered. If they start to propogate it will be a Hienz 57 strain for sure.
Will Schultz

Posted 11/9/2007 8:59 AM (#283815 - in reply to #283811) Subject: RE: Muskie Growth Rate

Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Tom,
Unfortunately all we have is angler diary/reports on one strain but there is extensive growth data on the other inland (non-GLS) strain. With one strain we're seeing 47", 7 year old fish. Illinois has some great data on strain performance with Project Green Gene. No surprise that the more genetically diverse (Heinze 57) the strain being stocked, the better it grows in all water types.

With the GLS the only data is the cleithra work from St Clair. We don't have any good data on our inland GLS but from the limited number of samples they are a slower growing fish. The initial eggs used to create Long were taken from the Indian River in Michigan (two years if I remember right). It is a very low density fishery and the man hours required to take eggs was just too much so the egg take was moved to St Clair.

Edited by Will Schultz 11/9/2007 9:46 AM

agrimm

Posted 11/9/2007 9:12 AM (#283816 - in reply to #283449) Subject: Re: Muskie Growth Rate

Posts: 427

Location: Wausau

Mike,
Nice graph, if accurate I'll start my research for lakes stocked in the early 90's. I all ready have a few that cross referenced with cisco lakes.
Thanks... bn

Posted 11/9/2007 9:34 AM (#283821 - in reply to #283449) Subject: RE: Muskie Growth Rate

knowing what Andy is looking for here might help out the replies...looking at stocking records for northern WI lakes...vilas/iron/oneida etc...in my opinion the fish that were stocked in the lake 80's and early 90's as fingerlings (10-12"ers) are the ones that would be worth hitting now correct? imo a fish at say 17-20 yrs old in northern wi with avg growth rates as most up there have would be in that 48" and up range correct?
I have fished some lakes in the last couple falls with good stockings in the 93-96 range and we put fish from 43-46.5 in the boat....my opinion was those were fish from the 93-96 stockings just a guess by how old they would be and how fast I "think" they grow....

thoughts?

jonnysled

Posted 11/9/2007 9:46 AM (#283822 - in reply to #283449) Subject: Re: Muskie Growth Rate

Posts: 13688

Location: minocqua, wi.

my thought is .... you guys figure all this stuff out and i'll just jump in the boat with you and buy the pizzas and beers ... how's that sound? ... oh, and you can crash at my crib ... bn

Posted 11/9/2007 9:59 AM (#283824 - in reply to #283449) Subject: RE: Muskie Growth Rate

How old was Gelbs fish??? That should have been figured out by now correct?
jonnysled

Posted 11/9/2007 10:02 AM (#283825 - in reply to #283449) Subject: Re: Muskie Growth Rate

Posts: 13688

Location: minocqua, wi.

there was info on that one on mh ... if i remember right the thought was over 20 and it actually was like 17 ... i'll see if i can find it somewhere ... tcbetka

Posted 11/9/2007 12:55 PM (#283855 - in reply to #283821) Subject: RE: Muskie Growth Rate

Location: Green Bay, WI

Judging from the graph posted above, a 20 year-old fish should be pushing 50", even with *average* growth rates. It might even be more in some cases, though it's hard to say because of the potential genetic differences in the various strains involved.

I just got off the phone with Rick Lax, and he thought Gelb's fish was 22-23 years old. But he said they posted it on MH this past spring, so I will just go search the archives and try to find it...

TB

Edited by tcbetka 11/9/2007 12:56 PM

Derrys

Posted 11/9/2007 1:01 PM (#283857 - in reply to #283449) Subject: Re: Muskie Growth Rate

We came across a couple of dead fish a year or two ago from two West-Central Minnesota lakes. The DNR officer in our Muskies Inc. Chapter removed the jawbone to date the fish. The 49" fish came back as 12-14 years old and the 51 inch fish was around 15 years old. It takes Muskies in our area about 6 years to reach 40 inches in length. Don't know if that info helps you or not. TTurn

Posted 11/9/2007 7:25 PM (#283896 - in reply to #283857) Subject: Re: Muskie Growth Rate

Posts: 91

Would it be theoretically correct to assume that since average growth rates for northern wi muskies require 20yrs to grow to be 50" and fisheries with deep water, say 80 feet or huge acreage seem to produce bigger younger fish that the forage with the most fatty and oily content (ciscos/tullibys) is a major contributer to fish reacing 50" by age 14yrs. It seems that cisco populated lakes support faster growth rates. And good walleye populations seem to contribute too.